Castles & Crusades: Saving Throws... Focusing On Death

In the earliest editions of D&D, death, along with poison was your best save.

In Castles & Crusades, the death save is a charisma save. 

Also under the purview of charisma are charm and fear. 

This has consequences.

For example, in C&C, half-orcs suffer a -2 penalty to their charisma stat, thus, they are less personable (of course) but also, more suspectable to death, charm, and fear than any other race. Does that make sense to you?

Also in C&C, bards have charisma as their prime stat. This makes sense for their profession, charming and all that, but, this also makes bards very resistant to fear and death, right up there with knights and paladins. Does that make sense to you?

So, in C&C, saving throws are based off your main stats. You have prime and secondary stats where you roll a 12 or higher for prime and an 18 or higher for secondary. Those are just the base numbers to which you add your level (unless you're stepping on another class's toes, such as a cleric trying to pick a lock) and your ability bonus. So, assuming average stats at 1st level, you're actually rolling over 11 and 17 respectively. Then you calculate in the challenge level, a spell -- the spell caster's level, a monster -- its hit die, for a trap it's the level of the trap setter, and so on. 

• For example: A medusa is a 6HD creature. Here are what various PCs would have to roll (on a d20) to avoid petrification. This assumes an average wisdom score.

• PC level 1, wisdom prime: 17
• PC level 1, wisdom secondary: 23

• PC level 5, wisdom prime: 13
• PC level 5, wisdom secondary: 19

• PC level 10, wisdom prime: 8
• PC level 10, wisdom secondary: 14

• PC level 15, wisdom prime: 3
• PC level 15, wisdom secondary: 9

• PC level 20, wisdom prime: -2
• PC level 20, wisdom secondary: 4

Characters start with 2 primes and 4 secondaries, 1 prime from race, 1 prime from class. Humans are the exception getting 2 primes, thus starting with 3 (other races get other perks, dark-vision and such.)

Here are the C&C classes by prime stat...

• STR: Fighter, Ranger
• DEX: Rogue, Assassin
• CON: Barbarian, Monk
• INT: Illusionist, Wizard
• WIS: Cleric, Druid
• CHA: Bard, Knight, Paladin

Most, but not all, of a class's abilities will function off their prime stat. Class ability rolls are essentially saving throws. So, charisma is crucial for all of the bard's performance and influencing skills, likewise, charisma is crucial for the successful use of a knight's and paladin's battlefield leadership abilities.

Anyhow, bards, knights, and paladins are, by default of this system, the hardest to kill by death attack.   These classes are also the most resistant to fear and charm. Charm makes sense for bards and the other two make sense for knights and paladins, but all three classes  inherently have an advantage in situations specifically calling for death. Now, you can choose charisma as your second or third prime, but you're probably sacrificing some class abilities in doing so. 

Charm makes sense for charisma to some degree, but fear and death do not. Look at those around you, impersonable grouches are usually quite resistant to charm and those who think they're slick often fall prey to other slicksters. Of course, the smart-ass might say, impersonable grouches can be charismatic in their own way, but now we're muddying the waters.

Of the six abilities, the charisma saves make the least sense. This is probably a case of trying to spread the saves evenly among six stats so as to avoid the game having a dump stat. How better to give charisma some weight than by linking it to death? And this is not necessary. You see, charisma is the social save.

Should there even be a death save?

For example: Poison is damage (and pain.) When you're stung by an insect or bitten by a snake, the amount of damage you take depends on the strength of the poison/venom/toxin. If that particular beast (whatever it is) hits you, you've been poisoned. What exactly, are you then saving against? It's like you have a free, vague, parry maneuver to reverse reality, saying -- no, actually, I was not bitten. 

Larger animals with poisonous bites, due to their sheer size, also do damage with their bite/sting/claw. This is where modern versions of D&D might have it correct in the fact that they might state damage as 1d6 (+2d6 poison damage.) If you do not have the hit points to survive this, have you not then, by default, suffered a death attack?

Going back, death should not be linked to any one particular stat. Perhaps the only death save that should exist in any game should come into play if your hit points happen to fall to exactly zero and you are making a save every round to see if you fall negative and die. In such a case, you could argue for a con-based save or a will-based save (wisdom.)

Going back to C&C. I believe fear should be covered by wisdom. Charisma should only handle social interactions, bard stuff, the knight's/paladin's warlord stuff, the assassin's disguise ability, bribing a guard, etc. I would also shift confusion from wisdom to intelligence, with, charm and fear going to wisdom. This leaves charisma to dominate the social realm. 

So the abilities and their saves in C&C, rules as written are...

• STR: Paralysis, Constriction
• DEX: Breath Weapon, Traps 
• CON: Energy Drain, Disease, Poison, 
• INT: Arcane Magic, Illusions
• WIS: Divine Magic, Confusion, Gaze, Petrification, Polymorph
• CHA: Death Attack, Fear, Charm

My changes...

• STR: Paralysis, Constriction
• DEX: Breath Weapon, Traps 
• CON: Energy Drain, Disease, Poison, Polymorph*
• INT: Arcane Magic, Illusions, Confusion
• WIS: Divine Magic, Gaze, Fear, Charm, Petrification
• CHA: Loyalty, Morale, all things Social

*Polymorph was originally attached to wisdom, but I moved it to constitution because of its archaic ties to system shock. Though petrify/polymorph are also classically linked, petrification is usually caused by gaze attacks which seem to be, at their core, an assault upon your will, where as polymorph is battling the structure and health of your physical body.

Now those pesky half-orcs aren't so shit-on by fate. Not that their existence is pleasant.

As for death attacks (not counting death specifically linked to things like poison) the best way to handle this is to allow the PC to use their BEST saving throw. This way, death favors no single class and with saving throws scaling as the threat-level rises, success is no guarantee.

 And so it's full circle with death becoming your best save.

And if your best save can't save you, then to Hell with you!

Last Day of The Lamentations Of The Flame Princess 2 For 1 Sale!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoIwynS8DUg

Tweaking The Castles & Crusades Assassin

This is regarding the Assassin as presented in the Castles & Crusades Player's Handbook 8th Printing as seen on the right below...

In this printing, the Assassin (which alphabetically should, and has up until now, been first) is presented at the end of the class section, as an optional class(?) that "turns the idea of a hero on its head." 

Do not dis the Assassin!

Anyhow, this Assassin is a pretty good version of the concept. Most of their classes are. And I like the fact that C&C classes go up to 24th level. 

The Assassin...

• Prime Attribute: Dexterity
• Hit Die: d6
• Alignment: Any non-good
• Weapons: Any
• Armor: Leather, Leather Coat, Padded

Abilities...

Only those given at 1st level, more come at 13th, but I'm not concerned about those at the moment.

Anyhow, these abilities are good, exactly what you'd think they'd be, but a couple could be tweaked and made mechanically more interesting, at least to me.

• Armor Allowed: As above, but they can wear any armor above AC:12 with a -1 penalty to their abilities per point above AC:12. I like this, nothing to tweak here. As the Assassin levels up, you can begin to weigh the risk/reward of better armor. Also, this could easily be ported over to Wizards -- any armor above 10 could give a -1 penalty to the casting strength level of their spell, hence an easier saving throw for the target. This idea could actually be applied to any class with armor restrictions. Basically, a -1 to all rolls for every point of AC you normally can't have.

• Case Target (Wisdom): Basically, if they spend 1d3x10 minutes observing a target, the CK (Castle Keeper -- "DM") gives them some sort of useful information. Too vague for me, and clearly designed for non-dungeon use.
• Tweak: Spend the first round of combat casing a specific target and receive a to-hit/damage bonus equal to +1/+2 at 1st level, +2/+4 at 6th, +3 /+6 at 12th, +4/+8 at 18th, and +5/+10 at 24th.  An Intelligence check must be made to gain these bonuses, the CC (Challenge Class) is modified by the target's HD. You can not even attempt this if you take damage before your turn. These bonuses last that entire encounter against that particular target.

• Climb (Dexterity): This is your basic, almost supernatural, ability to climb pretty much anything you want without equipment. Doesn't really need tweaking.

• Death Attack: You must be hidden while studying your target for 3 rounds, then make a Sneak Attack (see below, not the same as the Rogue's classic Back-Attack.) If you succeed, the target must make a constitution save or die instantly. All well and good, but I will always prefer a Death Attack that's triggered by a natural 20. Either way, in this game, Death Attack saves are made with charisma. Monsters only have two saves, physical & mental. It seems to me that this would be a physical save for monsters.
• Tweak: Death Attack triggered on a natural 20, then 19-20 at 12th level, and 18-20 at 24th.

• Disguise (Charisma): You need props, make-up, and 1d3x10 minutes of prep, with some penalties for age, race, sex, etc. Then the CK rolls secretly for you and reveals if you succeeded at the appropriate time. Usual disguise rules stuff. 
• Tweak: An almost supernatural ability to fit in where you don't belong. I've said it before, it's like stealth out in the open. The roll is made by YOU when the moment of truth comes. CC modifier equal the highest HD present.

• Hide (Dexterity): The classic Hide in Shadows. There's really not much to tweak here. At 3rd level the Assassin can attempt to hide and move silently at the same time -- this requires two rolls, both at -5. I would require no such thing. Stealth is one of the hallmarks of thieves/rogues/assassins!

• Listen (Wisdom): "Hear Noise." Pretty standard here, however, in SIEGE, since this is a class ability, classes that don't have it do not get to add their level to the ability roll (SIEGE check.) Here, I'll bring up one of the criticisms of SIEGE, and it really goes back to the origins of D&D itself. Why does wisdom represent awareness? Wisdom, more accurately stated, is willpower/faith. I would argue that all observation/perception type abilities/skills should be under the purview of intelligence. I know, you can have absent minded professors and such, but should clerics be the most observant members of a party? In C&C, clerics kick-ass in this department because wisdom is their prime stat. Trust me, I love clerics, but, I think not.

• Move Silently (Dexterity): See Hide, above.

• Poisons (Intelligence): With the aid of some alchemical equipment, the Assassin can identify and manufacture poisons and antitoxins at 1/3 the market price. The handling of poison makes Assassins a bit resistant to them (+1 vs poison at 3rd level.) Pretty vague here. No time table is given nor are alchemy kits listed in the book.
• Tweak: You can harvest poison/toxins (actually, this would be venom, not poison) from slain monsters. An intelligence roll vs. the monster's level (HD) must be made as well as 1 turn of time (that's an old-school turn, C&C does not have 10 minute turns). Failure means you either botched it or the source was destroyed when the creature was killed. A natural "1" results in poisoning yourself. Vials are needed for storage. A vial of poison/toxin can be turned into 1d4 antitoxins with a full days work -- and another roll, failure means no antitoxin and the poison is destroyed.
• Tweak: Your +1 save vs. poison/venom at 3rd level continues to increase with levels, it becomes +2 at 7th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 18th, and +5 at 24th. 

• Sneak Attack: In C&C, Rogues have a back attack and a sneak attack. Assassins don't have the back attack because they have their death attack. With Sneak Attack, you can surprise attack someone walking by or even standing face to face. You get a +2/+4 attack/damage bonus and the target can't roll for initiative until the following round. But, you basically need the CK's permission to pull this off and the CK may require you make a Hide and/or Move Silently check anyway, at which point it becomes a weaker form of back attack. In this form it's more of a role-playing ability.
• Tweak: After initiative is determined, in the first round of combat, the Assassin can use Sneak Attack on anyone who acts after him. Thus, he gets the jump on that particular target.

• Traps (Intelligence): Finally a game that bases traps on intelligence instead of dexterity. And it's interesting that finding traps requires intelligence yet listening at doors requires wisdom. Nothing to tweak here though. One roll to find, another roll to disarm. And if you wish, a roll to set a trap of your own. Obviously setting your own trap would take time and it's not something I've ever seen come up in any game or system.

The 13th level+ abilities are mostly bonuses to surprise, initiative, dexterity, and sneak attack. At 15th level you gain a Signature Move which increases the potency of your death attack by +2 (meaning -2 to save) and at 20th level you gain an ability called Slow Kill which causes extra bleeding damage.

More to come on Castles & Crusades.

Great game.